Meta (Again?)

[rodo]

Lately I have been unable to find any new fics I want to read. So I decided to look up all the fics I stored on my computer before I could spend all my time online. They are mostly from 2004 and before, and my archive is in pretty bad shape. I'm trying to make them look presentable, but it takes ages *sigh*.

I'm currently working on a fic that was never finished, written for a source text nobody but me seems to remember and there were only ever a handful of fics online when I looked for them. Said source text is The Heroic Legend of Arislan, and as it happens it was the first source ever that I watched in English, back when my English was very bad. I think it was when I was in 9th grade, back when there were only four current manga series being published in Germany, and they were mainly for an adult audience. I don't know why I got the idea to import the three videos, but I did. And I fell in love with the series. I actually own a manga (number four) and the first of the novels now, and I'm thinking about translating the novel if I ever find the time. Anybody interested?

The fanfic I'm talking about is called Coronation by Sahari, a really popular writer back in the day. I think she had to stop publishing and to take down her site because of a stalker who claimed Sahari's fics had ruined her daughter's morals. Or something. I wasn't very involved in English fandom back then and much less interested in anything but the fic reading part of fandom. Anyway, her's wasn't the only fic I recently researched. It's the third I am working on. The first one is another WIP that has been abandoned, even though the author still writes. She's just interested in other stuff now, which is sad, because I still think that the abandoned story is her best. The next story has been abandoned as well, and even though it's still online, the writer seems to have disappeared (animexx.de automatically deletes your account if you haven't been logged in for half a year), the story is orphaned. And I think this might be true for most of my archive, at least for those fics I started reading before I stuck to completed stories. Most of my personal archive (about 75%, I'd guess) consists of abandoned WIPs.

I also tried to find new fics to read via rec-lists, and more often than not I ended up following a dead link. Websites vanish or aren't updated, and that makes me feel as if fandom is like Venice with its dead-ends and canals and narrow streets. Just without the signs that make Venice less of a maze.

And while I think that the abundance of WIPs is sad because many of these stories were awesome, many of them are at least still online, possibly because the authors never bothered to delete anything. The case of Sahari is a different one. Her site disappeared, even though a lot of people liked it. It's a great loss, in my opinion, because said website was part of our collective history. And that is what bugs me about authors taking down their works because they don't want to be associated with them any longer. I understand that, but I would really love it if it was still possible for others to distribute the works they love so much without fear. I'd love it if there was some place where authors could leave these works online. A place for these stories to become sort of the fanfic equivalent of a public domain (in this case: stories without authors attached to them), because in my mind, these stories belong to us in a way, they shaped fandom as we know it and thus are a part of it.

But this might just be the tired me speaking who would love not to have to keep a personal archive of fics. Most of them are internet formatted and look just awful in any other context. Lately, there have been a few authors who put their finished works up as a PDF, something that is very convenient for the readers. I really think this is a great idea and want to encourage others to do the same. It saves me hours of work trying to fix the screwed up format, at least.

Comments

[mllesatine.insanejournal.com]

Did you read this (http://xie-xie-xie.insanejournal.com/148116.html) entry?

[rood.insanejournal.com]

I think, but I didn't pay too much attention because it wasn't about my fandoms and I read it before Maya said, in no uncertain terms, that she didn't want people to share her fics to others except close friends after she deletes them. And before I started looking at all this old fics in my archive that are lost.

[blnchflr]

When fics/vids/arts disappear that I love, I feel the way you feel. But my own stuff? I want to be in control of the distribution of! So I have to grant that right to others, as well :o)

[rood.insanejournal.com]

The only thing it that direction that annoyed me so far was that someone reposted one of my poems (with my name underneath) that is still online. If I had deleted it (so linking would be pointless) and my name hadn't been added I probably wouldn't have minded.

I also don't delete my old stories that I don't like anymore. Someone did like them, others still read them, so I don't think its fair to them to delete the story. I guess I just have a different sense of ownership.

[yonmei.insanejournal.com]

Websites vanish or aren't updated, and that makes me feel as if fandom is like Venice with its dead-ends and canals and narrow streets. Just without the signs that make Venice less of a maze.

Yeah, but why should a writer bother to keep their website up and running if they never hear from anyone about it? I have a fic website which I don't bother to update any more because it's too much trouble for too little return: as far as I can tell from feedback, I get one reader a year.

Livejournal is a site where you can post a story and get instafeedback - but conversely, it makes it so easy for fans to leave feedback that anything more difficult just gets left out. Most fans these days won't even be arsed to write an e-mail if they like a story. Then they complain that websites aren't maintained any more. Not that I'm saying you do this, I'm saying that feedback is the only way fans have of knowing their stories are actually being read, and the only motivation they have for keeping a fanfic archive live and maintained is that the stories are being read from it. If no one's reading (as far as the author can tell) why bother keeping the site up to date?

[rood.insanejournal.com]

Not that I'm saying you do this,

Actually, I hardly leave any feedback, for various reasons, and I very much dislike people telling me that it's solely the reader's fault if an author deletes his/her stories. In my experience, that might be the case with fanbrats and newbies, but they, I think, tend to just leave their work unfinished. Those who really were a part of fandom tend to leave things unfinished and not updated because they leave for other things they are more interested in.

I also don't expect more feedback than I give myself. I'm also not that great at updating my own website because I'm too lazy most of the time, but I don't just delete it. My motivation for keeping it is a different one altogether (I want to keep all my stuff in one place). And before deleting it you could still post an annoncement on the frontpage and leave it up there for a while to ask if anybody's still interested in the site. And then there's the new OTW project most people probably don't know about. The Open Doors project. You wouldn't have to maintain it anymore but it would still be out there.

Livejournal is a site where you can post a story and get instafeedback

If you're publishing in English, maybe. I don't think I received more than two comments on all my fic because I write in German. For me, the best way to get feedback are still the multi-fandom archives.

Most fans these days won't even be arsed to write an e-mail if they like a story.

Because it means handing your e-mail-address over to a stranger most of the time. And some people (like me) don't like that. Who knows, the author might expect you to write feedback regularily, or put you on the list for a personal newsletter you have no interest in because you were only interested in this one finished story. E-mail is a very private way of communication for many, and I understand why people are wary. Who knows what kind of weirdo you're writing a mail to?

[yonmei.insanejournal.com]

Keeping a website up to date costs time and/or money. Why should a writer bother to keep the website up to date if no one who reads her stories likes them enough to send her an e-mail saying so - or regards her as "some kind of weirdo" who may produce a story you liked but who can't be trusted with a communication saying so.

I very much dislike people telling me that it's solely the reader's fault if an author deletes his/her stories.

I bet you do. But of course it is. Why bother keeping stories online if no one reads them? How do you know anyone's reading them if no one ever leaves feedback.

[yonmei.insanejournal.com]

And then there's the new OTW project most people probably don't know about. The Open Doors project. You wouldn't have to maintain it anymore but it would still be out there.

Yeah, but again - without feedback on the story, why bother?

[rood.insanejournal.com]

Well, I met a lot of weirdos online. I try to avoid meeting more of them.

How do you know anyone's reading them if no one ever leaves feedback.

On my website? I check the traffic data or whatever it's called in English.

[yonmei.insanejournal.com]

On my website? I check the traffic data

...which doesn't tell you if people are reading them.

Well, I met a lot of weirdos online.

*shrug* Writing off everyone you don't know as a "weirdo" is no way to get along in fandom. Fanbrats and newbiews born since 1983, who probably don't even remember fandom before the Internet... Jesus, take a risk! If someone wrote a story you liked, maybe they'll turn out to be a horrible dangerous person and you'll need to block e-mail from them (you need to learn how to do that, if you've managed to avoid learning that till now) but most likely they'll just be another fan like you.

I'm sorry

[yonmei.insanejournal.com]

This was unfair. Everyone has a right to maintain what safety about their privacy they feel comfortable with online, and even if I think yours is a bit extreme, I entirely support your right to maintain it. I apologise.

Nevertheless, I do feel that someone who chooses not to let writers know that their work is liked and valued, has absolutely no grounds for complaint when those writers decide "what the hell" and take those unvalued, unliked works off the Internet.

[rood.insanejournal.com]

...which doesn't tell you if people are reading them.

But it does tell me some people browse my site and are apparently interested in my work (which is not only fic, I uploaded many of my photos as well).

Also, for me, feedback isn't all that important. I know it is for some people, and I gave up trying to make them understand my point of view a long time ago, but I don't write for feedback. I don't even post for feedback all that much. I post because I want to give something back to fandom. Posting fic is my way of participating, of giving something back. Feedback, to me, is another way of participation, one way of giving something back, but it's not something I demand of my readers. I treat feedback like a gift. Just like my fics are a gift. And isn't it the point of a gift not to expect anything in return?

And you're right, I don't remember much of fandom before the internet. I mainly read the only available magazine on anime and manga back in the day, and that is about it. But I came across a lot of people in my five years in online fandom, and it taught me quite a few things about when to shut my mouth. And that some people will harass you in every way possible.

[yonmei.insanejournal.com]

And isn't it the point of a gift not to expect anything in return?

Sure. But as I said in my later commment: if you've left the giver of the gift with the strong impression that no one is actually interested in the gift, because no one likes it well enough to write them feedback, who are you to complain that they decided to withdraw the gifts that no one wants or likes from the Internet?

[bridgetmkennitt.insanejournal.com]

I've actually started posting my fics directly onto my site and linking from there instead of posting them directly onto my IJ and linking from that (as I refuse to upload a story onto LJ). There is a feedback link that returns them to IJ if they want to comment so they don't have to go the email route. I even have a note on every IJ feedback page about OpenID so they can use that instead of creating an IJ account since I know how lazy many people are.

I had just mused about this on my IJ the other day and I knew moving from FFN to LJ to IJ that my feedback number would drop like crazy. I'm okay with that. It was my choice to choose x reasons over feedback for my moves. That's one of the reasons I post from my site because I see the view count day to day and over time. Sure, I don't know if they're reading the fic per se, but considering I post oddities like femslash in Supernatural fandom, if they're clicking, they had a reason to. Feedback is just icing on the cake for me at that point.

[bridgetmkennitt.insanejournal.com]

I always update my site with my latest fic or drabble, and I did this even before I started posting directly from there and linking to it.

Websites vanish or aren't updated, and that makes me feel as if fandom is like Venice with its dead-ends and canals and narrow streets. Just without the signs that make Venice less of a maze.

I love websites and I do wish more people used them. I used to use Angelfire's free site before I bought my own and I kept templates for the html needed on every page so I could just copy and paste.

[rood.insanejournal.com]

I love websites as well. I even learnt HTML to make my own, and it really doesn't have to be expensive if you want to have a toplevel domain and paid webspace (it costs me about as much in a year as my mobile does in a month).

Websites also allow you to format as you like. On LJ or IJ, you can't always use the formatting you want to and unless you're a paid user you're rather restricted in that area too.

[yonmei.insanejournal.com]

There is a feedback link that returns them to IJ if they want to comment so they don't have to go the email route.

I tried doing that when I was still on LJ, but found that it still didn't work as far as getting people to leave feedback went.

And you know, I write stories for the main reason that I want to write them. Flashfic is the only kind of story I write really for the feedback - and even then I wouldn't do it if it wasn't fun. Writing is fun in itself.

But sharing the stories online on a website is work, not fun. if people want to read them, sure, that website gives them the means to do so. But if no one's interested - if people just appear not to be reading or enjoying - why bother doing the work? It's worth writing the story for itself: it's not worth sharing the story if no one seems to want to read it.